Post by Admin on Apr 1, 2020 8:41:04 GMT -5
www.reddit.com/r/Sino/comments/fiyb1j/yet_another_quality_post_from_rcommunism_china/
This post is a list of (what I feel are) the most common talking points relating to China and the novel coronavirus, in case they come up in conversation. I hope this is helpful for you, comrades.
The coronavirus is a bio-weapon
Verdict: False
To date, there is no evidence to support the claim that the coronavirus is man-made, other than some vague links to some laboratory or other. However, the virus strongly resembles two other bat-related diseases, SARS and MERS, indicating it was probably natural and probably jumped to humans from an intermediate host. Source: WHO www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200221-sitrep-32-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=4802d089_2
Furthermore, based on the statistics so far, the coronavirus is an objectively terrible bio-weapon. Most cases are mild, the mortality rate is very low (lower than SARS and MERS), and the majority of those who have died were the elderly and/or those with pre-existing health conditions. You would expect a bio-weapon to effectively disable or outright kill those in the prime of their lives, but the coronavirus doesn't do that. Source: China CDC weekly.chinacdc.cn/en/article/id/e53946e2-c6c4-41e9-9a9b-fea8db1a8f51
Chinese taste for bats / wild game is to blame
Verdict: Not conclusive
Setting aside how racist this talking point is, there is no evidence to show that "bat soup" or anything of that sort was the initial cause (the Chinese don't even eat bat soup in the first place). As the virus can spread through bodily fluids, it is not necessary for the first case to have directly come into contact with an animal (let alone have eaten one). Furthermore, as mentioned above, it is likely that there was an intermediate host for COVID-19; in the case of SARS it was bats -> civet cats -> humans. The first case (that we know of so far) reported on 1 Dec also had no connection to the market at all. Source: The Lancet www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30183-5/fulltext
Edit: I am still trying to double-check this part, but leaving it up for now [[[There is some preliminary plausible evidence that while the virus was "discovered" in a market in China, it might have originated elsewhere, with the US being the current prime suspect. I first heard of this theory from this globalresearch.ca article www.globalresearch.ca/china-coronavirus-shocking-update/5705196, and of all the evidence presented I find the Taiwanese video m.weibo.cn/status/4477008216030027#&video to be the most convincing. (I speak Mandarin and I watched the whole video myself, so what follows is my firsthand interpretation.) The gist of it is that there are 5 "families" of the coronavirus, named ABCDE, with A being hypothesized to be the earliest variant based on virologists' understanding of how viruses mutate. While all the cases in Wuhan are of variant C, the US has all five families among its (very few!) cases. This points to the possibility that the coronavirus originated in the US, and that some deaths in the second half of last year attributed to the flu or vaping injuries www.statnews.com/2019/09/06/vaping-cases-rising-dont-know-cause/ may have actually been due to the coronavirus. Even the mainstream media is getting in on the action (e.g. CNN) edition.cnn.com/2020/03/13/asia/china-coronavirus-us-lijian-zhao-intl-hnk/index.html, however we won't know whether this theory is true or not for at least a few more weeks while it is investigated.]]]
China attempted to cover up the virus outbreak
Verdict: False
The orginal report said after China's CDC received genome results from commercial labs on Dec 31 and realized what it could be, it was classified as a potentially dangerous pathogen, and per pathogen handling regulations all samples at uncertified labs must be destroyed or shipped via secure containers to certified national labs, and all pathogen information must be centrally analyzed by the certified labs. 7 days later on Jan 7 the national lab uploaded the full genome to an international database
This is the "cover up" BBC and NYP refers to, the part where commercial labs were banned from playing with COVID19.
Source: this Reddit comment old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/fg9wfo/china_officials_knew_of_coronavirus_in_december/fk3blxv/
China attempted to silence whistle-blowers
Verdict: Misrepresented
While the story of Dr Li Wenliang www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3049411/coronavirus-li-wenliang-doctor-who-alerted-authorities-outbreak is mostly accurate, some of the facts have been subtly twisted to suit a cozy anti-China narrative.
The message that Dr Li sent on Dec 30 was a private message meant for only his medical contacts. Unfortunately, it was screenshot (along with his name) and went viral, on the same day an initial notice about the "unknown pneumonia" was put out with the line "Any organizations or individuals are not allowed to release treatment information to the public without authorization." The important point here is that the information attributed to him was spread without his will or consent. Source: CNN edition.cnn.com/2020/02/03/asia/coronavirus-doctor-whistle-blower-intl-hnk/index.html
So yes the police made him sign a notice promising not to spread any more falsehoods, but he definitely was not a noble hero struggling against government censorship (he was a noble hero in other ways, as medical frontliners are).
China is under-reporting the number of cases
Verdict: Mostly false
This medical article www.mdpi.com/2077-0383/9/2/388 discusses how China may have under-reported the number of cases in the first two weeks of January, due to being unable to detect them. This is not at all surprising; it is common sense that any country which finds a new disease on its hands would take some time to "catch up" to the situation.
China has also changed its reporting guidelines at least six times, and each time led to a fluctuation in cases reported. This might fit a certain definition of "under-reporting", but it seems like a stretch. It would be possible to retroactively test discharged or dead patients for the coronavirus to get the numbers as accurate as possible, but I think China has its hands full already. Source: CNBC www.cnbc.com/2020/02/26/confusion-breeds-distrust-china-keeps-changing-how-it-counts-coronavirus-cases.html
However, when people bring up this talking point they are probably referring to this Epoch Times piece www.theepochtimes.com/leaked-documents-reveal-chinas-shandong-province-faked-coronavirus-infection-data-real-numbers-up-to-52-times-higher_3251354.html (and other articles/videos quoting it) which cites "leaked documents" showing a higher number of coronavirus cases than was reported in the media. In response to this, I would like to point out that 1. early coronavirus testing had a high false positive rate and 2. the Epoch Times is notoriously sensationalist and anti-communist.
(Another reason for under-reporting is lack of test kits or medical equipment and personnel in general. If we consider this, every country is under-reporting.)
Anger is mounting over the Chinese authorities' handling of the situation
Verdict:
I admit, I don't have any sources for this one, only anecdotes from the Chinese people I know. They tell me that now that social media sites are no longer auto-censoring coronavirus-related postings, people are more willing to vent than they were before.
But honestly, if you were in a quarantine zone with no freedom of movement, little access to food and medical supplies, and with the threat of death (yours or a loved one's) constantly hanging over your head... if you had to queue for 5 hours to see a doctor and be told to come back tomorrow... wouldn't you have pent-up frustrations too?
And it's very easy to paint "the Chinese authorities" as a monolith, when in reality there are many layers of local government, and the CCP can't control everything that happens in the country. Perhaps it's the local officials who have missed a step along the way. Or perhaps, which seems to me the far more likely scenario, resources and manpower are already stretched to their limits, through no fault of anyone's.
This is my first attempt at an effort post, please be gentle.
I am not American, I live in an Asian country with locally transmitted cases.
Let me know if you have other sources or arguments to add and I'll be happy to edit them in.
[minor formatting and grammar edits]
This post is a list of (what I feel are) the most common talking points relating to China and the novel coronavirus, in case they come up in conversation. I hope this is helpful for you, comrades.
The coronavirus is a bio-weapon
Verdict: False
To date, there is no evidence to support the claim that the coronavirus is man-made, other than some vague links to some laboratory or other. However, the virus strongly resembles two other bat-related diseases, SARS and MERS, indicating it was probably natural and probably jumped to humans from an intermediate host. Source: WHO www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200221-sitrep-32-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=4802d089_2
Furthermore, based on the statistics so far, the coronavirus is an objectively terrible bio-weapon. Most cases are mild, the mortality rate is very low (lower than SARS and MERS), and the majority of those who have died were the elderly and/or those with pre-existing health conditions. You would expect a bio-weapon to effectively disable or outright kill those in the prime of their lives, but the coronavirus doesn't do that. Source: China CDC weekly.chinacdc.cn/en/article/id/e53946e2-c6c4-41e9-9a9b-fea8db1a8f51
Chinese taste for bats / wild game is to blame
Verdict: Not conclusive
Setting aside how racist this talking point is, there is no evidence to show that "bat soup" or anything of that sort was the initial cause (the Chinese don't even eat bat soup in the first place). As the virus can spread through bodily fluids, it is not necessary for the first case to have directly come into contact with an animal (let alone have eaten one). Furthermore, as mentioned above, it is likely that there was an intermediate host for COVID-19; in the case of SARS it was bats -> civet cats -> humans. The first case (that we know of so far) reported on 1 Dec also had no connection to the market at all. Source: The Lancet www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30183-5/fulltext
Edit: I am still trying to double-check this part, but leaving it up for now [[[There is some preliminary plausible evidence that while the virus was "discovered" in a market in China, it might have originated elsewhere, with the US being the current prime suspect. I first heard of this theory from this globalresearch.ca article www.globalresearch.ca/china-coronavirus-shocking-update/5705196, and of all the evidence presented I find the Taiwanese video m.weibo.cn/status/4477008216030027#&video to be the most convincing. (I speak Mandarin and I watched the whole video myself, so what follows is my firsthand interpretation.) The gist of it is that there are 5 "families" of the coronavirus, named ABCDE, with A being hypothesized to be the earliest variant based on virologists' understanding of how viruses mutate. While all the cases in Wuhan are of variant C, the US has all five families among its (very few!) cases. This points to the possibility that the coronavirus originated in the US, and that some deaths in the second half of last year attributed to the flu or vaping injuries www.statnews.com/2019/09/06/vaping-cases-rising-dont-know-cause/ may have actually been due to the coronavirus. Even the mainstream media is getting in on the action (e.g. CNN) edition.cnn.com/2020/03/13/asia/china-coronavirus-us-lijian-zhao-intl-hnk/index.html, however we won't know whether this theory is true or not for at least a few more weeks while it is investigated.]]]
China attempted to cover up the virus outbreak
Verdict: False
The orginal report said after China's CDC received genome results from commercial labs on Dec 31 and realized what it could be, it was classified as a potentially dangerous pathogen, and per pathogen handling regulations all samples at uncertified labs must be destroyed or shipped via secure containers to certified national labs, and all pathogen information must be centrally analyzed by the certified labs. 7 days later on Jan 7 the national lab uploaded the full genome to an international database
This is the "cover up" BBC and NYP refers to, the part where commercial labs were banned from playing with COVID19.
Source: this Reddit comment old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/fg9wfo/china_officials_knew_of_coronavirus_in_december/fk3blxv/
China attempted to silence whistle-blowers
Verdict: Misrepresented
While the story of Dr Li Wenliang www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3049411/coronavirus-li-wenliang-doctor-who-alerted-authorities-outbreak is mostly accurate, some of the facts have been subtly twisted to suit a cozy anti-China narrative.
The message that Dr Li sent on Dec 30 was a private message meant for only his medical contacts. Unfortunately, it was screenshot (along with his name) and went viral, on the same day an initial notice about the "unknown pneumonia" was put out with the line "Any organizations or individuals are not allowed to release treatment information to the public without authorization." The important point here is that the information attributed to him was spread without his will or consent. Source: CNN edition.cnn.com/2020/02/03/asia/coronavirus-doctor-whistle-blower-intl-hnk/index.html
So yes the police made him sign a notice promising not to spread any more falsehoods, but he definitely was not a noble hero struggling against government censorship (he was a noble hero in other ways, as medical frontliners are).
China is under-reporting the number of cases
Verdict: Mostly false
This medical article www.mdpi.com/2077-0383/9/2/388 discusses how China may have under-reported the number of cases in the first two weeks of January, due to being unable to detect them. This is not at all surprising; it is common sense that any country which finds a new disease on its hands would take some time to "catch up" to the situation.
China has also changed its reporting guidelines at least six times, and each time led to a fluctuation in cases reported. This might fit a certain definition of "under-reporting", but it seems like a stretch. It would be possible to retroactively test discharged or dead patients for the coronavirus to get the numbers as accurate as possible, but I think China has its hands full already. Source: CNBC www.cnbc.com/2020/02/26/confusion-breeds-distrust-china-keeps-changing-how-it-counts-coronavirus-cases.html
However, when people bring up this talking point they are probably referring to this Epoch Times piece www.theepochtimes.com/leaked-documents-reveal-chinas-shandong-province-faked-coronavirus-infection-data-real-numbers-up-to-52-times-higher_3251354.html (and other articles/videos quoting it) which cites "leaked documents" showing a higher number of coronavirus cases than was reported in the media. In response to this, I would like to point out that 1. early coronavirus testing had a high false positive rate and 2. the Epoch Times is notoriously sensationalist and anti-communist.
(Another reason for under-reporting is lack of test kits or medical equipment and personnel in general. If we consider this, every country is under-reporting.)
Anger is mounting over the Chinese authorities' handling of the situation
Verdict:
I admit, I don't have any sources for this one, only anecdotes from the Chinese people I know. They tell me that now that social media sites are no longer auto-censoring coronavirus-related postings, people are more willing to vent than they were before.
But honestly, if you were in a quarantine zone with no freedom of movement, little access to food and medical supplies, and with the threat of death (yours or a loved one's) constantly hanging over your head... if you had to queue for 5 hours to see a doctor and be told to come back tomorrow... wouldn't you have pent-up frustrations too?
And it's very easy to paint "the Chinese authorities" as a monolith, when in reality there are many layers of local government, and the CCP can't control everything that happens in the country. Perhaps it's the local officials who have missed a step along the way. Or perhaps, which seems to me the far more likely scenario, resources and manpower are already stretched to their limits, through no fault of anyone's.
This is my first attempt at an effort post, please be gentle.
I am not American, I live in an Asian country with locally transmitted cases.
Let me know if you have other sources or arguments to add and I'll be happy to edit them in.
[minor formatting and grammar edits]